Our place in the current format - Your thoughts?

Servant of Daigotsu Joined: 03 Sep 2009 Posts: 425

This thread is intended to promote some discussion and shake some things up, not for me or anyone else to bitch about current losses or whatever...

I would like to know, as a community, what the thinking is on where we currently stand in the power stakes?

Personally, I think we're mid tier at our absolute best at the moment. The game has slowed considerably in the last few sets since Goblin/naked lion was running over everything, and TBH I don't consider that a bad thing. But factor in the considerable amount of errata directed at our best cards in the last months, and things get ugly...

Our mid speed decks aren't as strong as the ones being put out by Crab and Lion, and i've heard some say Mantis and Unicorn too. Crane have some very strong honor crawl going, not to mention the good old auto upstream battle against Scorpion and the power of Dragon right now, and that puts us pretty near the bottom of the pecking order by that logic...

I may very well be incredibly wrong in saying I personally don't think we have a very strong deck right now, it just seems that no-one is scared of Spider anymore. Not even a bit.

Thoughts chaps?

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:35 am

I would have to respectfully disagree. While its true that Breeder has taking a major hit from the majority of the errata, plus slapped down again with the addition of a number of cards from TPW and IG3, our other decks have indeed gotten stronger. Paragons have some new toys to work with, I just dont think anyone has perfected the mix of cards to make it beasty yet. Monks, while still a little one dementional personality wise, got some pretty new toys with TPW. Oni's, in my biased opinion, are very strong at the moment with the addition of OAS (since the bow a unit works with every Oni I would put in a deck) as well as things like Caught Unawares to help deal with the slower start.

While its true, the blaring strengths of a few of the other decks is very previlent, I dont believe for a second that we are in any kind of trouble.

Bearer of Hope Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 124

I would also place us in second tier right now. While it is true no one is gunning for any one specific Spider deck these days (like they were for our breeder and gobbos a few months back), I strongly believe we have some solid decks. I haven't played Monks in a while so I don't know about that deck, but Big Oni and paragons have indeed come a long way.

Big Oni is probably our best one right now, with it being rather solid even before the Plague War cards. It's only been getting better and it always causes headaches for my opponents when I play that deck.

Paragons have come the furthest along. The newer cards, like Strength in Terror, are absolutely brutal and have done wonders for the deck. I believe that with just a bit more experimentation, especially when it comes to the choice of attachments and which non-paragon personalities to include, it could very well become formidable.

And of course, who could discount Ornatov's gobbos...

Servant of Daigotsu Joined: 03 Sep 2009 Posts: 425

Thanks for the intelligent responses lads, maybe my point could be a bit more eloquent...

I agree that we have *ok* decks across the board, but I don't think we have anything that stands up as a serious contender like we once did. Our big decks have been cut off at the knees and our decks that were poor by comparison have gotten a bit better.

Onis are the best of the bunch at the moment I agree, I just find it frustrating that once upon a recent time a Spider stronghold caused fear in the hearts of men... Now people just go back to thanking heavens it isn't another Lion.

I hear that we were a proper joke clan once upon a time though, so I guess I should be grateful lol.

That and get my Lion deck together =p

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:01 pm

The biggest thing we have to consider is not how well our decks play... It's how well we play our decks!

If you know your deck inside and out - top to bottom, then you are going to play it well.

If you know how opponents decks play out and what their weak/strong points are, then you are going to play it well.

My point is this... When playtesting your deck, don't give up on it after a few games. Keep testing and testing until you know your deck, until you know what it's capable of. Then start adding in tweaks for various weak spots. Then test some more and more.

Right now, I agree that Spider doesn't have a top tier deck. But good players can take their bottom tier decks and do well with them. Just takes practice. And more practice.

Last arc... We were the butt of all jokes. We didn't do too well in competition. The beginning of this arc, nobody was laughing anymore. At this point in the arc, we aren't the butt of jokes, but people aren't afraid. So we aren't in bad shape.

One more thing I'd like to add is: At least we have 4 strong (not powerful) decks to play. 4 different strategies our opponents have to deal with. At least when we sit down at a table, our opponents don't know for certain how they need to proceed. That, my friends, gives us an edge. Not a huge one, but still....

Servant of Daigotsu Joined: 04 Jul 2009 Posts: 558

I think Paragons are going to slide to the forefront of our deck fairly soon. I can only speak for myself in playgroup and the people I've played against online but they HATE my Paragon deck because they think its a nightmare to play against.

I'm interested to see what Empire at War is going to have for Paragon support, hopefully something good. Something for Paragons that either takes out multiple attachments like Aura of Malice or a solid DV kill action through attachments would be ideal for me.

As for future sets for the rest of this arc, the only deck that hasn't really seen any massive support is Spider Monk Kensai's, so my guess is that we will see that on the rise soon.

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:38 am

I think spider monk/kensai got plenty of support through the basic monk actions. Granted dragon monk seems to fare better sans-weapons, I think spider likes to do a bit better with the weapons. IG3 has the katas I think monk/kensai could leverage, but all in all I think monk/kensai is getting better.

Servant of Daigotsu Joined: 03 Sep 2009 Posts: 425

Big Remy wrote:

I think Paragons are going to slide to the forefront of our deck fairly soon.

I agree. And NO disrespect intended toward my clan brothers, I think this is indicative more of our other decks falling then what it is of Paragons being a force to be reckoned with in the current meta.

I agree completely that our weaker decks are being supported, but our stronger decks, in my view, are being watered down(or being neutered by certain cards) to match this *relatively* low level.

Again, i'm not saying para/monk is bad, its simply NOT bad, as opposed to actually good.

On the other hand, Lion get a stronghold erratad so it doesn't do silly things with a region, and then they get Testu Kama Mine =|

I guess this is the real world butting in... We play the bad guys after all. They CAN'T win!

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:18 am

In my opinion Spider its one of the best clans in general these days.We can play a lot of decks perhaps not all of them are competitive but all of them are solid.We have breeder,goblins,onis,paragons and now monks got heavy support.I maybe be wrong but i believe monks are going to be brutal with empire at war.they have versatility and an insane fate deck,dynasty keeps getting better only the stronghold problem remains cause fingers its mediocre.

Servant of Daigotsu Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 30

Nah best clan would be Dragon, followed by Phoenix. Spider would be mid tier I think, since Gobs/breeder got hit with the 6g hate, Onis didn't receive much support and Kensai Monk still missing its true house. Paragon got a lot of boosts and still fun to play, but its still missing some cool uniques (which they got in EaW).

Servant of Daigotsu Joined: 03 Sep 2009 Posts: 425

Spider is a very fun clan to be a part of, just cause we can run so many things, but we are far from the best clan imo. None of the many decks we can front are particularly good.

In some ways that in itself is a small advantage, cause if you're scared of spider what do you meta? You could be facing half a dozen different decks under the banner...

Servant of Daigotsu Joined: 04 Jul 2009 Posts: 558

I'm telling ya...watch tournament results in the months after EaW goes legal.

Paragons on the upswing.

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:02 pm

Big Remy wrote:

I'm telling ya...watch tournament results in the months after EaW goes legal.

Paragons on the upswing.

Well to be honest... There aren't gonna be very many tournaments to compare after E@W. Until next kotei season... But by then, we should have another set come out. And hopefully by then, we will have at least one really great deck type to field. And not just a bunch of weaker builds that are just good.

Chances are, it will be paragons.

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:08 pm

I am currently enjoying Paragons alot.
You guys just need to hold out a bit.

Servant of Daigotsu Joined: 03 Sep 2009 Posts: 425

I was afraid Paragons would creep in power... You need quite a few rares to make that happen, and I has no promo horsey dudes you guys all like.

And they cost silly money to buy.

Sad times for me and my goblin loving self =[